Clarification on Socialism, God, and man's efforts

I don't think we need to go far to see that we live in a fallen world. Often times, we need only look at ourselves. The argument about whether or not a person's sin is deserving of God's judgement is best left to God showing that person Himself. I don't want to argue about that here. What I wish to show is that human effort often goes awry. I believe that most people do what they think is right most of the time. Rarely does someone do something they know is wrong unless deep down they think that what they are doing is either actually good for them or is serving justice. I don't believe we humans can really do something truly just and good unless it aligns with God's reality, because He sees what we don't see and is interested in the eternal, not the temporary. Jesus himself said that no one is good but the Father and that he only did what he saw the Father do. If you consider Jesus good, therefore you must consider the Father good, if you believe in the accuracy of the Bible.

What I'm saying is this, when you consider Jesus, all that we strive to do as humans becomes temporary or corrupted when not done in the ways or direction of God.

A classic verse from Ps. 103 says that men are like grass and his glory like the flowers of the field. The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord stands forever. It is clear from Jesus' words that God wants his family to care for the poor when he said that true religion is to care for the orphans and widows in their distress. This is why I say that socialism has godly attributes. It is clear to me that socialitsts, Christian or not, care for these things as well. However, history has shown that the practice of socialism is performed from a humanistic basis.

Humanism promotes man as the measure and end of all things and at needs promotes man's goodness and potential. This is contrary to what God reveals about man's position in the Bible, that we are in need of reconciliation to the Father through Jesus. Therefore, socialism has turned into totalitarian control of people and represses religion as it did in Russia and as it is does in China. Proof of this includes the fact that Christian's are persecuted in China because they talk about the kingdom of God, his return to the earth, and the claim that Jesus is Lord. The communist government does not like talk about them not being the ultimate and everlasting authority in China. This is why Christians are persecuted for political reasons, because the authorities believe that Christianity is subversive to their rule.

For these reasons, and others, I believe socialism could be dangerous if instituted in our government because it would most likely come with a basis of humanism which could become corrupted and oppress religion and show itself to be a tragically failed attempt by humans to do something good, but outside of the ways of God.

That being said, I have to say that I think socialists are concerned about the right things, but propose the wrong solutions.

Socialism Round 2: What's your world view?

Socialism is a complex issue that has many forms. In my research, I looked for the most relevant form of socialism in America and found it to be democratic socialism. What sets them apart is that they support a representative government but would like to have direct democratic control over the market place through strong government control. In other words, they believe a community's best interests would be met, not through free market, but through citizen control of any market or corporation that affects them. They also want the U.S. to reduce its' power in the world in favor of cooperation with other governments to help provide for the poor all over the world. There are other issues I could debate, but I focused on these two for my thesis.

My thesis is that democratic socialism would not work in America because the founding fathers had a clear vision of a free market society (in context of a charitable society), a strong and distinct nation amongst the other nations of the world (pursuing our own destiny), and that the confiscation of business property for the collective ownership of the community is against the fouth amendment, which establishes a strong incentive for the right to own property.

However, since it is generally recognized by us Christians that socialism has many godly attributes, I must say that debating this effectively with anyone involves talking about world view. From world view, we can establish what is effective governance, or whether government is effective at all within certain world views.

I agree with Sara that without God's direction to love your neighbor and take care of the poor it is impossible have an effective socialist model in any country. My world view is, as Christians believe and the Bible states, that the heart is deceitfully wicked and that a man's own ways lead to death (but God's ways lead to life). Alexander Hamilton believed similarily. He is basically the founding father of our economy.

Socialism: The Debate. Round One, Fight!

Well, no fighting, really. That was just for fun! Seriously though, I want to know what folks think/know about socialism. I want to hear both the think and the know. I don't want to only hear what you think if you don't know anything about it and I don't want to here a bunch of facts that could be misleading. So what do you think/know about socialism for America? Two of the Dem candidates are for soc med, and proabably other things too. How about you? I'll tell ya'll what I think/know in response to various posts.